Friday, January 26, 2007

A Traitor to the United States

Well, the Reverend Briggs certainly makes me feel welcome in my own country.

I came across this while visiting Lindsay Berenstein's blog Majikthise.

86 comments:

Tommy said...

Hooray, I did it! I posted my first photo.

Yeah, I know what y'all are thinking: "Rookie!"

Sable Chicken said...

Technology sure is challengeing.

Stardust said...

Way to go, tommy! wooo hooo!

I see the sign address is in the state of West Virginia. (figures)

How about we put up a sign that says:

Anti-Atheist is Anti-Constitution
Anti-Constitution is Anti-Freedom
Now go cry Persecution!

CyberKitten said...

Interesting that each statement is illogical... but when did that ever stop the theists.

Atheism leads to Civil War eh....?

Wow - What *power* American atheists have! Cool or what?

vjack said...

Wouldn't it be great to have atheist billboards? Man, I have too much fun just thinking about what they could say.

Joe said...

Can't you just feel the Christian love!

Sable Chicken said...

Is this photo shop or not?

Stardust said...

That photo is indeed real.
It was originally a billboard created by
Mr. Kevin P. Reilly, Jr.
Chairman & CEO
Lamar Advertising Co.
5551 Corporate Blvd.
Baton Rouge, LA 70808

There has been much controversy since the Lamar Advertising company won't sell billboard space to atheists.

Here is an article about it.

Stardust said...

Rev E F Briggs, who is responsible for buying the billboard space died not too long ago at the age of 98. I am sure there will be others who will follow in his footsteps of spreading lies and hate in Jeebus's name.

Sable Chicken said...

"There has been much controversy since the Lamar Advertising company won't sell billboard space to atheists."

What did these atheists want advertised on Lamars billboards? The artical didn't say. There was some church that wanted to put some adds into the Rolling Stones Mag. and they would not let them run the add. It was just an ad about telling people to read the Bible...so that's life, the owners of the billboards refused to promote atheists and it could just as easily been the other way around. Isn't that all part of the freedom of speech?

Stardust said...

What did these atheists want advertised on Lamars billboards?

Most likely a rebuttal to the xians' outlandish and unfair statements that were advertised on Brigg's billboard.

Isn't that all part of the freedom of speech?

Apparently only when it comes to xians.

The xians statement was defamatory, discriminatory and outright lies.


Don't start crying persecution again...there are jeebus billboards everywhere telling people they are going to burn in hell, telling women what to do with their own bodies, telling people they need gawd, it's everywhere!

When is the last time you have seen a billboard telling xians they are delusional? But never fear, we are working on it and I am sure they are in the works. My bet is that xians are so "tolerant" they will burn them down as soon as they are put up.

Tommy said...

Sable, I would need to see the particulars of what you are talking about in order to comment on it.

Here's the thing though re: the billboards. The billboard featured in my post is basically attacking atheist Americans as being anti-American and traitors to this country. No atheists are running ads anywhere calling Christians anti-American or traitors to America.

People who read Rolling Stone magazine (I rarely ever have) can find messages urging them to read the Bible in many places.

Stardust said...

And Rolling Stones magazine is sold on racks inside stores...billboards are out in public for the whole world to see. Big difference, especially when what is being advertised are lies. Why do xians feel they have to lie so much? Is it because their faith is that fragile?

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust
"The xians statement was defamatory, discriminatory and outright lies."
Why, just because the word "God" was on it?

"Don't start crying persecution again.."
I'm not, you are.
Stardust I have never, ever seen a Jesus billboard saying that people are going to burn in hell. I have seen a billboard in the middle of the desert once that said "Jesus saves"

"When is the last time you have seen a billboard telling xians they are delusional?"
Well this billboard is not saying that atheist are delusional.
"But never fear, we are working on it and I am sure they are in the works."
I'm sure they are working on something very defamatory and discriminatory right now.
"My bet is that xians are so "tolerant" they will burn them down as soon as they are put up." Stardust right now the atheist on YouTube are the ones that are burning stuff up to show their intolerance.

Sable Chicken said...

Tommy
I was talking to a man that has served in the US military and I told him that one day they will remove "In God we Trust" off of our money. He told me that, that would never happen because if we did we would lose the war. This man is not a Christian like me, but many people have a sence of God and feel that it is unAmerican to stand strongly against God. Which is not to say that they, as well as myself feel it is just as American to have the freedom to not believe in God.

My point about Rolling Stone's Magazine is they do have the right to refuse to advertise the Bible if they so choose. So Christians look for other ways to reach maybe the same crowd that they would have reached if they would have been allowed to advertise in that Magazine or billboard or what ever.

If the company of the billboards was an atheist, and ran ads that Christians found offensive....and refused to run Christian ads, that is just a part of freedom of speech, right?

Lui said...

What a bunch of fucking wieners.

Intimidation and bigotry. That's all the fundamentalist fascists have.

"Isn't that all part of the freedom of speech?

Apparently only when it comes to xians. "

How very true. For fundamentalists, "freedom" means freedom only to listen to their lies and distortions, and to obey the Bible (well, not really, but that's for another day) as though it were something more than a document written by ignorant nomads.

"My bet is that xians are so "tolerant" they will burn them down as soon as they are put up."

They'll probably cry about being "oppressed". Many probably think that the law oppresses them by making it illegal to kill atheists. In other words, they're being oppressed for not having the freedom to oppress others.

"The xians statement was defamatory, discriminatory and outright lies."
Why, just because the word "God" was on it?"

No, because it was defamatory, discriminatory and outright lies. See, the world doesn't owe you anything just because you invoke God. If He's foot soldiers resort to disgusting slander to get their point across, they have to expect a reaction from rational people. Can you see how that works?

"Well this billboard is not saying that atheist are delusional."

So, they MIGHT be right but nevertheless they're traitors?

One more thing. It’s funny how this billboard lambasts lawyers, even though it’s the religious crazies who are notorious for threatening lawsuits and legal action against anyone who stands up to them. Hypocrites.

Tommy said...

Sable, regarding In God We Trust, I fail to see how having those words on our currency causes some deity up in the heavens to look more favorably upon us. Again, is this God so insecure that if the word God does not appear on or money that this entity will get upset? "In God We Trust" was not always on our money, and I don't see that our nation before that suffered or prospered anymore than it did afterwards.

That being said, having those words on our money is not a major concern of mine. But, if all of a sudden one day new coins were minted and dollars were printed without In God We Trust on them and it was done without announcement, most people probably would not even notice.

Stardust said...

Stardust I have never, ever seen a Jesus billboard saying that people are going to burn in hell. I have seen a billboard in the middle of the desert once that said "Jesus saves"

Sable..I have. In states like West Virginia, Georgia, North Carolina, Arkansas (lived there for two years when my husband was stationed there in the AF and there were many "you are going to hell" billboards) and there is one right off Rt 83 that runs through the Chicago suburbs. I will try to remember to snap a picture of it next time I drive by.

Stardust said...

But, if all of a sudden one day new coins were minted and dollars were printed without In God We Trust on them and it was done without announcement, most people probably would not even notice.

Even xians worship money more than their imaginary friend and probably don't really care if in god we trust is on money anyway. In fact, why do religious people want their god's name on "dirty" MONEY? It's because they LOVE money...and church leaders LOVE those offerings. They love money more than their gawd. Gawd won't feed anyone, but money will buy a sack of food and clothes for their children.

They always quote their bible for justification for things...well, let's turn it around. Jeebus tossed the moneychangers out of the temple, then on the other hand xians demand money, money money! Because they know the Lawd wont provide anything without it!

Kind of ironic that god's name is on money now and the two go hand in hand so often.

Sable Chicken said...

"....regarding In God We Trust, I fail to see how having those words on our currency causes some deity up in the heavens to look more favorably upon us."

Tommy I totally agree there is no reason for God to look more favorably on us because our currency carries "in God We Trust" on it. You might be right that no one would even notice the removal of it if it was not put to a vote. But I think that this billboard is addressing the issue of people going out of their way to remove God from every little thing they see because the word God gets them bent out of shape. If atheism is just a lack of belief in God or gods, what is the big deal? The thing is for many atheist being a atheist is about eliminating God from every aspect of life. People are fighting for a country that is pretecting the right to worship God in the freedom of the public view. I don't like war and there is a really good chance that God will use our enemy to correct His people,...I hope not but it is biblical.

Why does this whole billboard thing remind me of those Geico commericals where the Neanderthals are getting bent out of shape?
;)

Tommy said...

Sable, the message of the billboard is that if you are an atheist then you are a traitor to the United States. I am an atheist AND a patriot, and I resent the accusation that I am considered a traitor or less of an American because I do not believe in the existence of a supreme being.

If the billboard had simply said "Attention to Atheists! Respect the religious beliefs of your fellow Americans" or something along those lines, that would be understandable. I hope you see the difference.

Sable Chicken said...

Yes I do see the difference. And I would have preferred that the billboard said, "Attention to Atheists! Respect the religious beliefs of your fellow Americans" as well.

Stardust said...

If atheism is just a lack of belief in God or gods, what is the big deal? The thing is for many atheist being a atheist is about eliminating God from every aspect of life.

Most atheists are not out to take away your freedom to worship. That is certainly not my intention, nor do I have any right to. But in reverse, what is the big deal with keeping your beliefs to yourself? The Amish manage to do that. Buddhists manage to do that. Hindus manage to do that. But Muslims and Xians just won't respect other people's rights to choose and leave them in peace. And THAT is where the problems come in.

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust
"what is the big deal with keeping your beliefs to yourself?'

Well it most likely has to do with having a responsibility to tell others of the 'Good News".

Stardust said...

Yes I do see the difference. And I would have preferred that the billboard said, "Attention to Atheists! Respect the religious beliefs of your fellow Americans" as well.

sable, And atheists do just that.

We stand "respectfully" by as prayers are said, we stand by "respectfully" when Gawd Bless America" is played at football games and sporting events. Our children are made to recite the Pledge of Allegience "under god" in classrooms and few protest.

Churches are still popping up all over and are unmolested by atheists. We do not stand on street corners shouting "xians are delusional, there is no god!" We do not buy up television time to hold shows about atheism and to talk about how stupid xians are for their beliefs.

We do not knock on the doors of your private homes to tell you that you should dump the god delusions and become an atheist. We do not try to bribe your children away from your god beliefs with little "prizes" for going to sunday school. (There is a huge Baptist church near us who offers candy and free McDonald's lunch to all who get their parents to let them go to their Sunday school. Hammond Baptist Church, Hammond Indiana if you care to look that up.)

But xians start squawking and whining "persecution" whenever an atheist wants to publicly express their point of view, no matter how politely. Xians get in a tizzy about Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins giving 45 minute lectures on BookSpan. Xians comdemn atheist books they have never even read and want stores not to sell them (what's the big deal? It's a free country.)

Tommy said...

That's the thing though about firm believers of Christianity and Islam. They believe that acceptance of their message is necessary or else the non-believer will suffer an eternity of torment in the afterlife. Not only that, but non-believers cannot be tolerated because they are like a contaminant. Atheists leading happy lives in public might deceive people whose faith is not strong that maybe it is okay for them to be atheists to, thereby leading them astray. Yeah, if I could only have that kind of power and influence! :-)

As I repeatedly argue though, if there is some supreme being watching over us and judging us, then it would judge us by our conduct as people. Were we good parents, were we faithful and good to our parents, were we charitable, did we help those in need when we could, and so forth.

Stardust said...

Well it most likely has to do with having a responsibility to tell others of the 'Good News".

And that is where the problem comes in. Then there is that little problem of all of your "good news" being different versions. Many xians are not obnoxious evangelicals and we can co-exist with them much better.

And also, if you are an American, you are going to know about the Jeebus saves message, so it is just a nuisance.

Sable Chicken said...

"sable, And atheists do just that."
I disagree

Tommy said...

Stardust, I have a new troll over at the Part 1 post of The Fatima Candle. He just can't get it into his thick skull that if the Virgin Mary had really wanted to perform a miracle that summer, she could have saved thousands of lives by appearing over the trenches of Flanders in Belgium.

Having once been a Catholic myself, it amazes me how some of the more superstitious ones get all amazed over a stain on a wall beneath an underpass when there are so many more useful and practical things the Virgin Mary could do if she really wanted to prove herself to skeptics.

Sable Chicken said...

Tommy

"As I repeatedly argue though, if there is some supreme being watching over us and judging us, then it would judge us by our conduct as people. Were we good parents, were we faithful and good to our parents, were we charitable, did we help those in need when we could, and so forth."

Yes and those are the things that we are also to do as Christians. We will be rewarded for these good works but it does not get us into heaven.

Tommy said...

well Sable, freedom of religion in this country means that you are free to believe that if you wish, but public policy should not be guided by that belief nor should it be favored in the public square. We all must walk our own paths, and the only salvation you have any control over is your own.

If some being is going to damn me to eternal torment because I do not believe that a man called Jesus was the son of God and that I did not worship him, then that supreme being is an evil tyrant that is not worthy of my love, loyalty and respect.

Lui said...

"Yes and those are the things that we are also to do as Christians. We will be rewarded for these good works but it does not get us into heaven."

So let me get this straight. If you're a loving father or mother, husband or wife, philanthropist, upstanding citizen, good sumaritan, and so forth, but you happen not to believe in God for your own well-thought out reasons, you'll burn in Hell for all eternity, along with rapists and child murderers?

Talk about exclusivity. And talk about insecurity. Such a deity isn't good; such a deity is screwed big time in the head if he sends good people away to be tortured, simply for doubting his existence. Talk about juvenile. Delinquent juvenile.

In other words, rewards for the unquestioning and unthinking, torture and misery for those with honest doubts. That couldn’t be any more disgusting if it tried. And nope, I don't respect it. Not even one little bit. Some day, no one will respect it. That would be heaven on Earth, away from this craziness.

Tommy said...

The God of the OT reminds me of the character Charlie X in one of the original Star Trek episodes. He is a juvenile with tremendous powers but he is insecure, so any time he feels slighted or insulted by someone, he kills them.

Stardust said...

We will be rewarded for these good works

So you only do good works for rewards? Atheists do good things and expect no rewards.

t photha said...

Sable..I have. In states like West Virginia, Georgia, North Carolina, Arkansas (lived there for two years when my husband was stationed there in the AF and there were many "you are going to hell" billboards)

If they're going to threaten us with Hel..l, they might do well to hide the origins of their religion, and use a better name than Hel...l.

How about I buy a billboard that says Xians will wade through the brackish waters of Hel for eternity?

Sable Chicken said...

selfish,
egotistical,
prideful
These are the words that come to mind after I read your comment about God not being worthy of your love.

Tommy I am trying to save you, but it is fully your responsibility. I understand the title of your blog. You are a smart nice guy, good father and husband. Work take care of the kids, and you even have time to blog about God.
;)
I believe you do not understand the character of God.
:/
Or your just ignorantly defaming God's character.
God tells us His character in the Bible...in the OT.

I have a hard time believeing,
you're upset about a billboard because it defames your character?

Stardust said...

Tommy I am trying to save you, but it is fully your responsibility.

you see, sable...Tommy is not in need of any saving. This saving is just some belief that YOU have, not atheists. We do not believe in your imaginary friend and you are putting yourself through unnecessary, time-consuming attempts to win points for your imaginary friend.

There is no god except that of who exists in your own mind. If you go to atheist sites, that is what you are going to hear.

As for the billboard, it is a general attempt at defamtion of character of people who do not share your beliefs. To say we do not love our country and wish to start war are LIES. If any people are causing division in this country, and the war they bring they believe is justified by some mysterious book written long, long, long ago by mysterious questionable authors.

As for "defaming god"...we cannot defame that which does not exist.

You have yet to prove the existence of this god. This god has yet to show himself to the world except in the minds of people who need to believe in him.

Stardust said...

This should have read: If any people are causing division in this country it is the xians and other god botherers, and the "war" they bring they believe is justified by some mysterious book written long, long, long ago by mysterious questionable authors.

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust
I happen to disagree with you on all your points.

Tommy said...

Save me? Hahahahaha!

Thanks for giving me my best laugh of the day Sable. Congratulations.

Sable Chicken said...

You're welcome!
Have a nice day Tommy
;)

Stardust said...

I happen to disagree with you on all your points.

sable, that has been obvious for a long time.

Tommy said...

Awww c'mon, there's gotta be something you two ladies agree on!

Sable Chicken said...

Hey I really tried with her Tommy...what can I say, she don't like me. It's against her religion to like "xians"
;)
I try not to let it get me down.
She reminds me of my husband,
I've got to love'em.

Tommy said...

Do you both agree that "The Godfather Part 3" sucked?

Sable Chicken said...

I have never seen it, but I would agree to thinking it sucks, and that is why I have never seen it.

Tommy said...

How about Star Trek 5?

Sable Chicken said...

I really liked StarTrek best when it was on TV. I really don't know if I have even seen StarTrek 5.

****I like stars!****
;)

Stardust said...

It's against her religion to like "xians"

That is an absurd statement to say if you really knew me...and I don't need fake love from you...stick the lies where the sun don't shine. (Sorry tommy...she gets my goat and enjoys it.)

Stardust said...

Tommy - I didn't think that Godfather III totally sucked, but it was the weakest of the trilogy, and a let-down after seeing the first two. As one reviewer wrote "A discordant and unnecessary coda to an already completed and glorious symphony of films."

As for Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier - that outright sucked.

It's hard to find common ground with sable because she doesn't do anything or think about anything else but talk about jeebus.

Enjoy your husband, sable intead of badgering the shit out of him about jesus. My father just had a heart attack Sunday evening and we almost lost him.

Sable Chicken said...

Oh Stardust, it takes so little to get you worked up.
It almost makes me feel like I am effective!
Why so sensitive?
Like with the whole Hell thing. I don't think I have ever said to you that you are going to Hell...yet you are mad as a wet hen about it....why the BIG upsetness if it is so make believe to you?

Sable Chicken said...

Hey I'm sorry for making light, I hope your father is going to be ok. We all have to look at life and death...we have that in common.

Stardust said...

why the BIG upsetness if it is so make believe to you?

that is true, sable
it is all make believe.
Thanks for reminding me.

Stardust said...

Hey I'm sorry for making light, I hope your father is going to be ok. We all have to look at life and death...we have that in common.

Thanks sable...this is true, also.
He has a lot of problems, but for now he is stable.

Tommy said...

I think you two should have a cage match. If Stardust wins, Sable has to renounce Christianity. If Sable wins, Stardust has to convert back to Christianity. Of course, I would be rooting for Stardust to win.

Stardust, sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he recovers.

theerasak said...

Every word of the Bible is true. We KNOW that every word of the Bible is true, because the Bible SAYS that every word of the Bible is true, AND if you remembered from earlier in this sentence: EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE IS TRUE.

QED, atheist ignorami...

Sable Chicken said...

Good...Theerasak is on my side!

Stardust said...

I think you two should have a cage match.

tommy - I don't think so. ;)

Stardust, sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he recovers.

tommy - They found a blockage in one of the arteries in the heart and opened that up, but two more arteries are partially blocked. He may need bypass surgery but that is going to be really risky since he has an enlarged aorta. He is nearly 80 so they don't want to mess around trying too many things. My parents are becoming more and more dependent on me and my siblings.

Tommy said...

"Good...Theerasak is on my side!"

I wouldn't count on that Sable.

"My parents are becoming more and more dependent on me and my siblings."

I'm in the same boat Stardust. Unfortunately, I have to shoulder the responsibility for my mom without assistance from my two brothers. Fortunately, my cousin (the daughter of my mom's brother) is very helpful, as well as my uncle when he can.

whoitbedotcom said...

The things is, we all have faith in something, even if it's called "nothing" - "people of faith" (muslim, christian, jews, mormons...est.) have faith that there is a God but athiests also have faith - faith that there is no God and that He does not exist. So truly we should ALL be called "people of faith" becuase we're all in the same boat - we all have faith - we all believe SOMETHING even if it's that we believe in nothing.
Signing off - a person of faith (just like you)

Stardust said...

whoitbedotcom

Atheism is based upon reason and critical thinking. Faith is the antithesis of those qualities.

Faith in a god is firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Tommy said...

Whoitbe, thank you for your comments.

I do have to disagree with your statement that my atheism is based on faith.

I can't speak for all atheists of course, but it is wrong to characterize us having faith "in nothing." We believe in many things, just not in the existence of a deity. I do not need to believe in the existence of a god in order to appreciate the beauty and magnificence of nature and the universe. I do not need to believe in the existence of a god in order to be a father to my children.

Sable Chicken said...

To say that atheists have faith in nothing is a bit mocking. But it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian, would be a more accurate statement.

Christianity is based upon reason and critical thinking! Not that every Christian is a reasonable and critical thinker as myself, but then again not everyone that claims the name of Atheist, is all that rational.
It would be rational to say that one was an agnostic.

The faith of Christianity is not blind faith. There is evidence for our belief, it may not be the kind of proof that pleases you, but there is this something special that happens. That is hard for someone that has not experienced it to understand...it's personal. Like in a personal relationship...with God. It's a gift and I know longer have to rely so heavily on my faith.

"Good...Theerasak is on my side!"
I wouldn't count on that Sable.
You really think so?
(I was just kiddin...you knew that ;)

Stardust said...

The faith of Christianity is not blind faith. There is evidence for our belief, it may not be the kind of proof that pleases you, but there is this something special that happens.

In other words, you believe because you want and need to believe. That is your right to choose your own beliefs as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. That is what the rational atheist community is responding to. Live and let live, but xians feel it is their "duty" to badger everyone to acquire their beliefs, even going to a person's home and ringing their doorbell. Radical muslims want to see us dead (anyone who rejects islam). These are the things that Harris and others are responding to concerning religion, and why there is such a growing number of atheist/agnostic/humanist blogs. If people could live and let live about their own religions, we might be able to focus on the real problems of the world instead of going back and forth disputing each others' worldviews.

Stardust said...

That should ended with "instead of going back and forth disputing each others' religious or non-religious views."

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust

"In other words,"
No...not in other words... in your words
" you believe because you want and need to believe."
I believe in part because it would be an un-rational thing to not do.
" That is your right to choose your own beliefs as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others."
A Christian can't and doesn't force anyone to believe in the one true God..
For crying out loud...you hunt down Christians to harrass.
Isn't that why Lya left Gifs?
"That is what the rational atheist community is responding to."
Oh yah, thats why you have atheist that are so rational that they are book burning and wiping their butts with the Quran, (aka waving red flags) while denounseing the Holy Spirit without any fear, because they don't believe. 'boowhoo it's so hard to be an atheist'
"Live and let live, but xians feel it is their "duty" to badger everyone to acquire their beliefs, even going to a person's home and ringing their doorbell."
This whole ringing the door bell thing...give me a brake.
"Radical muslims want to see us dead (anyone who rejects islam)."
You paint with a broad brush.
Why do you fight against Christianity so hard if you fear Muslims?
"These are the things that Harris and others are responding to concerning religion, and why there is such a growing number of atheist/agnostic/humanist blogs."
Your beliefs are religious Stardust.
We live in a godless world and you think it is not godless enough!
Get every speck of God out of YOUR godless government and YOUR godless government run school system. If the Bible says don't kill, you cry, "It's a woman's body."

" If people could live and let live about their own religions, we might be able to focus on the real problems of the world instead of going back and forth disputing each others' worldviews."

What are the real problems of the world, in the view of the rational atheits?

Tommy said...

Okay, that's enough! Let's tone things down here please.

What are the real problems of the world? That could the topic of another post.

Regardless of whether we are atheist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever, there are common problems that we have to work together on to solve.

Stardust said...

Isn't that why Lya left Gifs?

No. Lya left blogging for personal reasons which I am not going to gossip about, but it definitely was not because of the reason you assume.

Secondly, GifS does not "hunt down" xians to harrass. Xian trolls repeatedly clog up our queue until we give them the attention they are seeking. We do let intelligent comments from xians in for discussion which have been quite civil. Most of the posts and discussion at GifS are civil, and informative.

I just wanted to clarify that for other readers here.

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust
"Most of the posts and discussion at GifS are civil, and informative."
HaHA HA... if you say so. I have noticed that it is calmer over there when you keep it one sided.

"Regardless of whether we are atheist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever, there are common problems that we have to work together on to solve."
OK Tommy...I'll try to tone it down.

Stardust said...

HaHA HA... if you say so. I have noticed that it is calmer over there when you keep it one sided.

Then you haven't been reading if that is what you think. We talk about a wide variety of topics and have a wide range of opinions. Many times political discussions we have can get pretty intense amongst ourselves. That is why you and I have problems communicating, sable. You make unfair accusations without really reading anything.

Trissa said...

I am a little bored this evening so I just read nearly all 70 of the comments.

Here's what I have to say...as a former christian and an almost atheist (because I agree with one poster that both take certain degree of faith or rather committment to a set of beliefs), I believe that arguing is pointless. Ultimately you disagree and that's that. Most of the country and maybe the world does not think like you. For the most part, Americans state that they believe in God, but they are not necessarily hard core evangelists. Also, many people are not willing to commit themselves to the idea that there is no higher power.

They are all somewhere in the middle just trying to live their lives and be decent human beings
(which is not to say that christians and atheists aren't decent human beings).

I left christianity because ultimately I couldn't fathom that an average people who lives a good couldn't make their way into "heaven" because they didn't utter a few words to God about believing in him.

It was wrong of the person to post that billboard. As someone who does not believe in God, I find it thoroughly insulting. Also, I don't think it does much in the way of winning people over to belief in God. It's really just poor logic.

Sable Chicken said...

Stardust maybe we would get along better if it wasn't a full moon. I stopped reading every single comment at Gifs after Sean died. I guess I have missed out on some intense discussions, but thats ok I really don't get into politcal debates anyway. As a Christian we are to pray for our leaders, it's not always easy to do, that's why I don't get into politics. I just vote and move on.

Sable Chicken said...

Trissa

"I left christianity because ultimately I couldn't fathom that an average people who lives a good couldn't make their way into "heaven" because they didn't utter a few words to God about believing in him."

If God was to let people in on their good works only...how good would someone have to be? What would be the cut off line. That is one of the problems with a works religion like Muslims have. A good person will go to heaven if they pray to Mecca three times a day. A bad person can't repent of his sins and be forgiven, but must go to great extremes now to get to heaven. While the God of the Bible is a just and forgiving God. It's not about uttering a few magic words to God. The Bible says that ALL have fallen short of God's glory, and Jesus was sent not to condemn world but to save it.

Trissa said...

Sable:

I grew up in the church. My dad was a pastor at a very contemporary evangelical church and while no longer a pastor, my parents still practice. I know the bible inside out. I was a camp counselor at a Baptist camp two summers running. I spent 23+ years in the church, I was indoctrinated to the core.

But over the course of the last three years I started to read things other than christian romance novels. I started to read Brian McLaren and other post modern christian authors. I started to right out my thoughts and realized that so much of what I was expected to believe didn't make sense. The package that modern christanity persents isn't even all that biblical. It's a cut and paste job that fits the black and white sensibilities of those who are close minded.

At some point I realized that the God I grew up knowing wasn't really there. I also realized that the God I grew up being told about was not somebody I particularly liked. He's not a just God. Only one billion people in a world with six billion believe in your God, so five sixths of those who live on this earth are going to spend eternity in hell. That doesn't really seem like a compassionate or loving God to me. In Tommy's words, he sounds like a tyrant!

Trissa said...

Sorry about all the spelling and grammar errors in that last post, I should have previewed it. I meant to say write not right.

Tommy said...

Thanks Trissa.

Not only does the God of the Bible come off looking like a tyrant, it also comes off looking highly improbable.

If there was a God, my belief as to what it would be like is probably sort of like the Vulcans in Star Trek, very intelligent and rational, but lacking in emotion. Of course, God, would not be afflicted with pon farr every 7 years (Stardust will probably get the reference!). A universal deity would not confine itself to being the personal deity of a collection of semi-nomadic tribes in some hardscrabble country in the Middle East. And it certainly would not be jealous. Jealousy is a petty human emotion.

Stardust said...

Of course, God, would not be afflicted with pon farr every 7 years (Stardust will probably get the reference!).

It seems that the xian god of the bible is already afflicted with a kind of pon farr, not in a sexual way, but by exhibiting a loss of logic and emotional control on a regular basis and also exhibiting the intense need to satisfy his urges, especially of needing his ego stroked every millisecond by billions of lowly subjects.

Trissa said...

You have to go to this website and watch these short films about a flippant god named Mr. Deity.

http://www.mrdeity.com/

Stardust said...

You have to go to this website and watch these short films about a flippant god named Mr. Deity.

trissa, those are great! I posted the first one on my blog. Thanks for the link.

Sable Chicken said...

Oh Yes, Mr.Deity....what could be more fun than mocking God, especially if you grew up knowing better than that.
;(

Tommy
"Jealousy is a petty human emotion."
We are talking about the kind of jealousy that comes about because of a broken marraige contract.

Tommy said...

Uhhhh, I don't think so Sable. That is what God tells Moses in Exodus when setting forth the 10 Commandments. No "contract" had been broken.

But if we want to bring marriage into this, the God of the Bible does come off like an abusive and domineering husband. Battered wife syndrome comes to mind.

Sable Chicken said...

I have never seen blasphemy like I have in the last year. People have been battering the character of God to the point that...
whatever

Tommy said...

Well, I for one can only say that I am sorry. I am sorry that you had difficulties and setbacks in life that pushed you to a point where you felt that your best choice was to make yourself believe that a collection of religious books known as the Bible was all 100% literally true. It saddens me that you have to make yourself believe that the Earth is no more than 6,000 years old and that in order to feel better about yourself, that believing certain things makes you feel "saved" and those who do not believe what you believe are damned in some afterlife. I am not going to make fun of you for that or look down on you condescendingly. I just feel a profound sense of sadness that circumstances in your life have put you in that position. I really do hope that one day you will break out of that box and realize that universal love does not require blind faith in ancient texts.

Trissa said...

To Christians in general:

I have no problem with people being Christians. My entire family is Christian. I just have issues with people telling me that I need to be saved. As I said before, I have lots of experience in the church, lots of friends, lots of family that remain there and none, none of them tell me I need to be saved! Because they would never be so flippant as to demand that I see things the way they see things. I know a few of them worry about me and pray for me, but they would never assume to tell me I need to be saved.

Also, when telling somebody they need to be saved, it completely undermines Jesus's ministy. The man loved people, he built relationship with them. You have no relationship with the people here. They are just words on a computer screen.

To sable:
I'm sorry that you feel that your beliefs are under attack. But also, you are the one who is posting on an atheist's blog. The original issue was an obviously offensive attacke agains those who have different beliefs than the one who bought the board.

Also, Mr. Deity is just for fun. The man who wrote, directs and acts in it is not an atheist. He's just joking around. My dad, who I remind you is a Christian and a former pastor, laughed at one of the Mr. Deity movies, because his faith is not challenged by a little joke. He does not feel undermined.

I did not show the link to insult anybody. I just think its funny.

I lived most of my life believing that Christians were under attack, but as I have become more atheist like I realize that really the ones under attack are the ones who don't believe in a Christian god. Christians have a large role in the media in this country. A much larger role than muslims, atheists, buhddists or any other non-christian group.

Stardust said...

Also, Mr. Deity is just for fun. The man who wrote, directs and acts in it is not an atheist. He's just joking around.

I found out that Mr Deity, Brian Dalton, is indeed an atheist. He is an ex-mormon.

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